God deserves to burn in hell

There is no god. But let’s think for a second about a scenario where there would have been an architect of the universe of some sorts, whether a magical god of any type, or simply a higher form of physical intelligence. Thus, for the sake of the argument in this post, let’s presume some form of a higher power exists. Would it be warranted to try to please and praise and listen to such a being? The short answer is no way. The longer argument is as follows:

Any maker of our universe could either completely not give a damn about it, in which case it is fully irrelevant, or have some vested interest in stuff that’s going on inside it. According to many people, the ‘interested’ higher power is exactly what there is. And insofar as it is interested (although it’s a bit difficult to conceive of the highest form of intelligence in the universe that would give a damn about what some amoebae that we are compared to it may be doing or saying…), people go out of their ways to try to second-guess what may please such a being and tickle its vanity…  Why all this is absurd in and of itself is covered in my other post “Nothing Personal“, so let’s move on to the current subject at hand, which is the following: even IF there had been a higher power, it is unworthy of regard, let alone obedience and praise.

ANY ‘interested’ or capable of empathy higher power (magic or not) who would have made such a universe as ours is a psychopathic sadist. That is ANY architect of the cosmos, even if it’s aliens. Most people’s version of a god is claimed to be ‘loving’ or ‘caring’. Any of their gods ‘loves’ everyone SO friggin’ much that it couldn’t conceive of creating any other type of universe for its ‘dearly beloved’ than the most inhospitable, cruel and difficult one to exist in. As a special token of boundless adoration, it made sure that the vast majority of life forms, including sentient apes called ‘humans’, who’d ever exist and would be self-aware enough to experience suffering definitively WOULD suffer. Most of them for absolutely no wrongdoings of their own and in manners that would serve absolutely zero purpose. For example, there are babies who are born with a genetic disorder that causes the butterfly wings syndrome: they lack proteins that bind different layers of skin. As a result, any touch to them causes blisters and bleeding – even ingesting food is torture. They suffer excruciating pain every minute of their lives and die quickly. Examples like this one are countless.

The usual lame excuses given for such suffering on behalf of the innocents is that these are either older souls who have already collected some sins upon them, or martyr souls sent down to teach a lesson of compassion to others, or blessed souls who through a brief period of suffering in this realm quickly earn a pass to an eternal bliss in a heaven. If you, the reader, think either of the three is a legit excuse – congratulations. You’re a monster. For the actual moral beings out there, none of the three scenarios add up. At the end of this piece there is a series of questions that any believer should carefully consider. There is no scenario to make any architect of this universe in the state that it is be good. None. Zero.

In addition, in many versions of an architect of the universe there exists some sort of a cozy retreat that is also designed by such an architect called ‘hell’. People suffer there eternally as a ‘punishment’ for limited in time and scope (and mostly profoundly mundane) ‘transgressions’. It’s a bit difficult to conceive of such a collection of wrongdoings, no matter how violent and cruel and numerous, that would warrant any form of an eternal retribution… In fact, it is impossible – that is, if you are a sane, moral human being. But I digress…

So here’s that higher power who decided upon creating that model of the universe where such stuff happens routinely… It’s created the universe, and now is watching all the horrible things happen and (if you believe in that) poor punished ones writhe in eternal agony in hell, maybe even feeling sad about it but doing fuck all to change the situation. In psychology it’s classified as sadism and psychopathy. In the framework of any type of a belief, it is classified as ‘benevolence’ and ‘working in mysterious ways’ and ‘non-interference with ‘free will’…

Neither of those excuses is anything but a lame attempt to somehow justify and absolve of fault of the greatest asshole imaginable. Let’s see about benevolence: I, a ‘lower’ life form, am far better than any god can dream of being. Because in 10 minutes time I can brainstorm a far better, fairer universe than it came up with. In the words of a wise man, Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? –Epicurus. There truly is no squaring that circle, no matter how hard one tries. If even I can think of a universe that, let’s grant even, WOULD include some degree of hardship and suffering and death, but won’t include abundance of all of the above that serves no imaginable purposes of any sorts (like the mentioned butterfly wings syndrome) – why didn’t the all-powerful architect of the universe manage to create a better model?

The ‘mysterious ways’ argument is very well addressed by Jim Jefferies and needs no further mention on my behalf:

As to the (non-existent) ‘free will’ thing… It doesn’t cut it. Here is why: take person A being the perpetrator of a violent crime and person B being that crime’s victim. Person’s a ‘free will’ is to execute that violent crime on person B. However, what the ‘free will’ proponents forget about roughly 100% of the time is the person B and their free will. Incidentally, person B’s free will is NOT to be a victim of a violent crime. Now what? Now it’s a standstill between two free wills that happen to be for opposing events. How does the all-powerful entity most often resolve that issue? By rooting for person A’s free will – because violent crimes on fully innocent victims happens ALL THE FUCKING TIME. Some may wish to begin arguing that no one is without a ‘sin’, of some sorts. Even if – what about violent crimes against little babies and kids? Oh, go ahead, push it: the ‘original sin’ that every newborn is already born with. Let’s take a baby/child that hasn’t been ‘absolved’ from that ‘sin’ through baptism or what not: the MAJORITY of human babies will never be dipped into water to ‘cleanse’ them off that – that’s a pretty bad model in and of itself. But even if one assumes the equal  ‘guilty cuz of Adam and Eve’ standing: that means all unbaptized humans start off at an equal ground: Person A’s standing sin-wise is no better or worse than baby B’s standing, if they’re both unbaptized, right? Right. Then it’s irrelevant. It’s a moot point and we’re back to trying to square person’s A ‘free will’ desire to commit the violent crime against the baby B, and baby B’s ‘free will’ to stay safe from it… It just simply doesn’t add up. What if person A is baptized and baby B isn’t? Well I’m sorry but if pouring a little water onto someone gives them a license to then abuse others then any belief system supporting such idea is asinine. Frankly, as ANY belief system is.

So there’s that interested higher intelligence, who not only couldn’t do any better than create a rather fucked up universe like ours with rather fucked up things happening in it routinely to completely innocent victims, but for the entire duration of existence of this universe watches it all unfold… Here’s a generic example. Take a little kid getting raped. The claimed god/higher power stands by watching a little innocent kid get raped (probably jacks off to that, too) and only THEN (in some versions of god-related beliefs)  reminds there MAY be punishment (in other versions you get reborn as a cockroach or something else happens, but the main point is, retribution is for the done deed and it’s delayed in time). In many cases there doesn’t even have to be a punishment – the rapist only needs to repent or pray or follow through with some silly ritual and boom – full forgiveness and heaven. Unlike such a joke of a deity, I, were I in that position and power, would never ALLOW for something so sick, twisted, pointless and harmful as child rape to ever happen in the first place. But a higher power does. All the time…

All this is exactly the reason why it confuses me that some people insist on singing praise to a dick infinitely worse than all violent criminals and wrongdoers of all sorts in the whole history – combined. In fact, no matter how one tries to twist and tango out of the fact, the creator of the universe is, ultimately, by selecting the grounds and framework of that universe, fully responsible for every single death, misfortune, occasion of pain, grief, sorrow, for every crime and every other reprehensible act and occasion in the universe. Because the architect could create any different model of the universe – but chose to create such that contains all that bullshit. Praise and obedience is the last combo such an architect would deserve – it instead would deserve a strong kick in the nuts and a spit in the face – at best.

According to many, such an architect is eternal… An eternal power responsible for an eternal array of pain, crime and woe of all kinds… This sounds to me that, if there was an eternal hell, such an architect would, in fact, be the only creature fully deserving of an eternal vacation in that hell for all it’s done.

To the apologists out there STILL not getting the point, here is a series of questions to keep asking yourselves until you do.

1. Who created everything? (according to your faith, it’s most likely the god. Right? Right. Moving on).

2. Just to make absolutely sure: was there anything or anyone or any force that, according to your faith existed BEFORE your god? (presumably, the answer is ‘nope!’).

3. Is your god according to your faith ALL KNOWING and ALL POWERFUL? (Surely the answer must be ‘yes’, or it isn’t a god we’re talking about – just some lower-range supernatural being at best.)

4. Given premise 3, COULD god have created ANY type of a universe it would want to create? Could it tweak laws of physics so that humans could fly or would have 5 legs or be entirely transparent or just WHATEVER THE FUCK IT WANTED? ANY arrangement of rules and conditions at all? And this, my darlings, is the KEY question. If the answer is ‘no’, then something that restricts a god’s power exists. Then it’s no longer a god. It’s a magic being of a lower order. For most faiths though the answer is ‘OF COURSE IT COULD DO ANYTHING!’ In case of that answer, proceed.

5. Keeping in mind the ‘yes’ answer to question 4, just to make sure: did the god then CHOOSE to create the universe in its current shape and form with the rules that exist in it for all creatures in it? You have to answer ‘yes’ to this if you answered ‘yes’ to number 4.

6. This isn’t a question any more. This is a logical conclusion to your answers. And it is the following: your god CONSCIOUSLY, DELIBERATELY CHOSE to create a universe the way it is, with rules as they are. It CHOSE to crate a universe where pointless suffering was abundant, life short and difficult, resources scarce and where babies get raped or have butterfly wing syndrome or worms eating their brains. It CHOSE TO create a universe where evil is conceptually possible. It CHOSE to create a universe with impossible to follow rules to bail one out of an ETERNAL retribution for a FINITE number of ‘transgressions’. It CHOSE TO.

7. Main question: WHY? WHY did an all-knowing, all-powerful entity CHOOSE to make this universe the way it is and not any better? Answer this.

If you answer starting with ‘because humans disobeyed…’, or ‘because the devil/forces of evil…’ or ‘because free will…’, or ANYTHING that starts with ANY OPTION EXCEPT FOR ‘BECAUSE GOD…’, then go back to answering every question again starting with question 2. Think about it. Explain how in your understanding a yet NON-EXISTENT creature/concept could influence the INITIAL MODEL of the universe created by a god who was alone out there before.

It couldn’t. Or you strip god from its being all-powerful and thus being a god at all.

When you have worked your way through all the other options and finally arrive to ‘because god…’ ones (this INCLUDES your favorite pull-out-of-the-ass-when-left-with-nothing-else-to-say “because god works in mysterious ways” aka “humans can’t understand the mind of god”, by the way), work through them by answering every question above again starting with question number 3.

If you’re an honest human being with half a brain, you can ultimately arrive to one of the ONLY three possible conclusions:

A. God exists and is the cruelest motherfucker in the universe.

B. God exists and doesn’t give a single fuck about this universe.

C. There’s no god. Definitely no god worthy of listening to and/or praising.

If you’re still coming up with excuses, you haven’t thought too hard about the questions. Go back and do it. Spend years on it if needed.

If, on the other hand, you think you can convince me that I’m wrong about the only 3 available options, please be my guest. My only two requirements for you if you want to argue for an existence of a god, who 1) exists and 2) is GOOD are very simple:

1. You lose you argument the moment you reference ANY ‘holy’ text/s.

2. You lose you argument the moment you use a logical fallacy instead of an actual point. (Here, I’ll make it easier for you: list of traps to avoid can be found here. Extra bonus points if you can identify the type of a logical fallacy that condition 1 preempts ;))

Good luck. Something tells me the universe will arrive to its death before an answer differing from the proposed 3 options will emerge.


About in shade

A cocktail of personality traits hard to digest for some but ultimately soothing for those who can. I observe, enjoy, travel, interact, photograph, dance, contemplate, write and love my way through this life's countless occurrences. This blog is a way to share with the world and its people some of the treasures they give me every day.
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59 Responses to God deserves to burn in hell

  1. Pingback: Gods’ PR agents – why do they suck? | Contemplating

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  3. I totally agree with you. Basically we are forced to come to this sick and sadistic world against our own will by some so called sick sadistic God. It is not like it gave us the choice of being we wanted to be or come here to earth for that matter. If this God and Jesus does exist they are the ones who deserve to burn in a lake of fire for all eternity in utter indescribable torture. Christians may then say well Jesus died on the cross for our sins. Well Jesus being tormented for all eternity is he. Jesus so called sacrifice was insignificant compared to what a lot of people and children have endured. I had a mental breakdown over this shit when I was 14. Death would have been preferable than have to go through that again. I have heard preachers say they would rather burn in hell for eternity instead of it be their loved ones. Then how is Gods love greater than these preachers. Why wouldn’t God do this for us when he put us here knowing well in advance of what would happen. I could never worship such a sick, twisted, and sadistic being.

    • Josephine says:

      As a Christian, i find most of these very insulting, but interesting, may i ask why do you feel this way? i believe that yes, horrible things happen, but most are causes of our own free will. and for cases like illnesses that people cannot prevent, yes they are bad, and yes, they are in God’s permissive will, but they are not caused by God, but by Satan, for God is only good and can’t do bad or even think bad thoughts. Lipstick Lesbian, as a 14 year old myself i cant empathize with your sorrow, and i have preferred death many times, but it was God who helped me through, when i felt alone, he was there, i only wish that you had the same experience. and if you think about it this is what Jesus went through: brutally whipped with a whip equipped with spokes, his back was described to look like a lb of uncooked ground beef (google image search), then he had to walk while dragging a huge cross on his raw back to his death. then he had nails dug into his wrist and feet and then hung, and then after hours of torment, after having to drink his own blood and a spear shoved up through his thigh. Jesus died. this was done by the people he tried to save. i think Having to wait 33 years, knowing that you would die a brutal death seems to be worst than being a teenage girl. plus, jesus went through adolescence. the bible says that there is nothing new under the sun, everything that we went through, there are so many others who did the same and survived.

      • in shade says:

        As a human being, I find your desire to justify the potential god’s conduct morally repulsive.
        Is god the most powerful fellow in your imaginary universe, or is it NOT? Because if god is all powerful, then “Satan” should not exist in the first place. Unless, of course, the god is a sadistic meta-asshole of the most epic proportions. Or doesn’t give a flying fuck about anything in the universe. Or, a more likely scenario, doesn’t exist.
        There is NO (read carefully: N.O.N.E.) excuse for evil in the world that a god isn’t 100% responsible for. NONE. By the virtue of having created the universe the way it is and, thus, all the evil in it that follows or ever did ALONE god is the ultimate fucking asshole.
        People who worship such an asshole (however imaginary) and make up excuses of all sorts are liars (because you lie about your god’s qualities ALL the time. That’s the down side of having a favorite character from a book to follow that a load of illiterate desert dwellers fan-fiction wrote over centuries, based on fairy tales that concerned themselves VERY little with truth or consistency…), hypocrites (because as long as you insist that god designed the universe, you can’t blame evil on ANYONE ELSE. And you do. You can’t. Just CAN’T) and morally bankrupt human beings (for no normal human being with actual morality intact would defend the utmost force of evil in the universe with such fierce fanaticism…).
        Josephine, please digest the following little fact: the moment you lay a claim that the universe (and everything in it) was designed and created by a god, this INCLUDES ALL EVIL in it. Period.
        This is plain as day without even going into “free will” debate (which is, again, entire fucking nonsense and a lie – the omniscience of a god makes it impossible to have as much as a notion of a free will. No, there are no sneaky semantic ways of wiggling yourself out of this one either – god either knows everything, then NO FREE WILL can exist by definition, or god doesn’t know anything much about some space monkeys on a rock – and then why call that creature god at all).

        • Josephine says:

          dissecting/discussing a few of your words
          “Is god the most powerful fellow in your imaginary universe, or is it NOT? Because if god is all powerful, then “Satan” should not exist in the first place. Unless, of course, the god is a sadistic meta-asshole of the most epic proportions.”
          -I am actually not sure what you mean by this. for clarification, Satan was one of God’s angels who decided he wanted to be as powerful as God and started an uprising. Because God is “the most powerful fellow” he easily squashed this revolution and banished Satan and his demons to earth (which is now why we see his terribleness in things like this post and ISIL.)

          “the moment you lay a claim that the universe (and everything in it) was designed and created by a god, this INCLUDES ALL EVIL in it. Period.”
          1) we all have free will (if we didn’t you’d be forcibly a christian (all of us would) and there’d be no evil in the world because God would have us not be)
          2) because God made us (humans) on this earth (the same Satan was banished to and given dominion over) we easily flock towards the attractive and easy life of Sin.

          “People who worship such an asshole (however imaginary) and make up excuses of all sorts are liars (because you lie about your god’s qualities ALL the time. That’s the downside of having a favorite character from a book to follow that a load of illiterate desert dwellers fan-fiction wrote over centuries, based on fairy tales that concerned themselves VERY little with truth or consistency…), hypocrites”
          -to me, the meaning of this excerpt is slightly dubious but I think you are saying that God’s qualities are inconsistent and made up. Which ones are you referring to? a few of God’s qualities that i can think of are: love, peaceful, omnipotent, faithful (to us) and also jealous and just. I think that because God is both Jealous and Just which shows that he is not afraid to punish us, make it seem like he is a hypocrite. my only response is that God is God, we are his children and human, we don’t have the same rules, responsibilities, and knowledge as God has, the desire for this is what created Lucifer to begin with…

          • in shade says:

            1. Irrelevant. Who Satan was and what the background is. Because god as the omniscient creator of the universe knew exactly that all of this would happen and STILL decided to go ahead make the whole thing that way, instead of tweaking it for something better.
            Oh and petty desires by some 2nd degree angel should not concern an omnipotent being at ALL. He should watch it like an adult watching a three year old trying to push a heavy tuck and laugh. The psyched out reaction by god was either a sign of him not knowing it would happen (he is then therefore not omniscient), or sign of insecurity in his position, and he is then thus NOT omnipotent.
            Laslty, god had countless choices on how to deal with Satan and evil. He chose the most fucked up one. If I were god, I’d finger-snap Satan out of existence as a faulty specimen and avoid all the bullshit that followed by allowing the guy to freely roam around ever since.
            Oh and before I forget: read your favorite fable and see how many people Satan murders vs God. If I recall correctly, the score is 3 (upon command by god, by the way) kills for Satan and the whole fucking humanity and animal and plant kingdom for god and that was just ONE of his bad days… Meh…

            2. No. There is EITHER free will, OR an omniscient god. The two notions are mutually exclusive, so pick one. In a universe that is given a green light to go ahead and happen the way it happens when someone has full knowledge of how it will all happen, full power to change/tweak things and who never does, there is no free will. There is a god watching Saw 3 as a rerun and enjoying the spectacle of entirely predictable and fully pointless human suffering.
            Also, why the fuck is Christianity THE answer? Why not any of the thousands other religions?
            Finally, if someone comes up to you with a torch and says ‘love me or I will burn your flesh off’ – a) are you actually physically capable of summoning real emotion of love towards that person on cue? and b) would that situation imply you were truly FREE to decide whether or not to love that person?
            The saddest part is, you fucking KNOW it’s twisted as hell. You KNOW your god is BLACKMAILING people into loving it (why? What can god possibly need admiration of semi-advanced apes FOR? His mega fragile ego? Wtf is WRONG with him?) by “or burn in hell forever”. And until the idea of a hell is entirely erased from your religion, there can equally be zero talk about free will. That’s a double layer of “most fucking definitely NO free will”: omniscience and omnipotence paired with allowing the world to turn out as it is, and the idea in and of itself of a hell as ‘punishment’ for not loving a celestial psychopathic megalomaniac.

            It’s irrelevant where we flock and how easy it is. The rules of this rigged game were set up by god and every action and decision known by him ahead of time. According to your faith. God is that girl from Saw 3. Or…

            Or god is NOT omniscient. Or maybe he’s omniscient but NOT omnipotent? Because if he’s both, there absolutely is NO way out of him knowingly setting this trap of a life the way it is and rigging the system to make sure he can watch the majority of humans who ever lived and would live be forever tortured in a hell he equally didn’t need to crate if he didn’t want to but he chose to create nevertheless… Mind you, NOT for punishment. Punishment, however cruel, is finite by nature. Hell is eternal. It’s NOT punishment. It’s sick entertainment for a sociopathic sadist because by even the cruelest standard of REVENGE (not even punishment), there would in a few million years arrive a time point at which the suffering would absolve the ‘sins’ of even the greatest mass murderers in history (of which the top position by the way belongs to your god), and after that point it’s mindless, pointless torture for the sake of torture itself.

            3. Ehm… so now it’s the humans who created Lucifer by their ‘bad qualities?’ That’s how you just made it sound.
            No. According to you, GOD CREATED EVERYTHING. And unless you bury yourself in special pleadings, there is no way out of that trap. God created evil, god is DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for every single act of evil on this planet, for every single ‘soul’ burning in hell. Everything terrible is first and foremost GOD’S creation.
            That you make up excuses for your god is fucking SICK. How do you judge that ‘god is good’? By what standard? By something you read in a stupid old book that told you “I am god and I’m good no matter what the fuck I do”? Well then you’re a sociopath with no morality whatsoever. By this logic anyone in a position of power is RIGT and JUSTIFIED no matter what they do simply by the virtue of them being POWERFUL. If that’s how you live your life, I hope our paths don’t cross because I’ve no idea how to deal with sociopaths and psychopaths and I’m afraid of you.

            Trouble is, that’s fucking bullshit altogether. The same goddamn way Christians decided based on THEIR HUMAN PERSONAL MORAL COMPASS which actually evolved (thankfully) over the past few hundreds of years, to ignore sage and sound advice on stoning children, cutting hands, killing non-believers’ babies and raping their virgins, as well as on not eating shellfish or wearing clothes of mixed fabric. Because the advice in their book IS IMMORAL. Most of it. And god’s behavior of a sadistic megalomaniac psychopath with short temper IS IMMORAL. And no it’s not excused by his power – one would THINK and all powerful, all knowing entity would behave better by at least a tiny margin than a fussy spoiled 5 year old brat at a candy store. If you excuse your god’s behavior by special pleading (i.e. “Because it’s god so it’s special so there!”) – HOW do you make that judgment? And why do you hold a GOD to a lower standard than a child with severe attitude issues who barbeques kittens in the basement for fun? What’s your logic? “My book said so”? That’s shitty logic. My book said I can learn witchcraft, YOUR book says, by the way, that witches and dragons are real and the former must be killed. But I digress. Or is your logic “power excuses EVERYTHING”? Cuz that’s equally shitty logic. You’re not moral if you only do what a powerful figure tells you to – you’re cowardly and obedient and a puppet in their hands (oh and you have zero free will cuz you’re playing eternal Simon Says…).
            When you read a text and decide to throw pieces on slavery out of your consciousness – they are STILL IN THE BOOK. And you are NOT using god’s standard of morality OR his teachings to do so. You are using YOUR OWN advanced moral compass, as you should, that matured beyond 0th century warmongering ignorance. You go against god EVERY SINGLE DAY OF YOUR LIFE by wearing mixed fabric clothes and not killing your kids for not blindly obeying you. You CHERRY PICK your bible for what you like and can get away with and leave out the sick and twisted shit that in our society would earn you a life prison sentence. But you still bend over backwards to reserve a special place for excusing satanic behavior on behalf of god because it simply holds an authority position? Seriously? Please tell me where you live so I’d avoid going there.

  4. I have often wondered about the inanity, pain, suffering; then I read about people, sages, saints, all mystics, whose experience transforms their understanding and comprehension totally. That leads me to consider there is something beyond my senses, but still within the realm of human experience, that exists and can be known within our own being.

    • in shade says:

      Yeah it’s called “the brain”. Heard of it? Has a peculiar ability to, you know, have random ideas and stuff… And to be self-aware… And to make up magic people in the sky when faced with gaps in understanding… 😉

  5. Pingback: God Deserves to Burn in Hell | Design Interaction

  6. Richard says:

    Don’t worry. All that shit is based upon the North Americans Christian view of things, which we all know is pretty fucked up. It’s also funny that there is this desperate need to have a ‘white knight’ save humans from the shit humans do to each other. Humans create hell right here on earth now, why wait for the ‘afterlife’ to experience torment and frustration? Always looking outside to find what’s wrong, point the finger and declare that ‘I won’t change until you do’. Ever notice that in all recorded human history that humans have NEVER lived in harmony for an extended period EVER? And just about all of them were looking toward several (today – mostly one, that’s modernization for ya) God’s to save their asses too? Perhaps it’s time to quit looking outside to find humanities salvation from someone or something else – history shows it’s JUST NOT THERE.

    • in shade says:

      Well said.
      It’s a perfectly evolutionary set of traits that makes us so susceptible of seeing/inferring agency and intent in all random events that mean something to us. One would have hoped, however, that by now as humanity we would have all learned about our brains’ shortcomings and would be cautious about them. But nooooo, keep making up imaginary sky friends to blame everything on so that your monkey ass feels falsely comforted by an imaginary sense of order in this very, VERY random universe of ours… Then spend your life trying to second-guess which hand does that imaginary sky being wants you to wipe your ass with and how many times. Instead of, you know, living a LIFE of ACTUAL meaning and consequence…
      Sad, sad world…

    • Josephine says:

      History shows that Like the bible says, men are fallible, we make mistakes, we sin (commit horrible crimes) yet amongst it all we are still here. Good still happens in the world. If you read / hear one thing from my comment please hear that no matter how bad it feels out there (in the world), there is always good. that is not just a Christian speaking but someone who likes happiness in the world. Also, Christianity started almost 2016 years ago (the date is a handy way to remember that) and even before that because it stemmed from Judaism which has many of the same values originally, so, since the beginning of humans on this earth essentially, “North [American Christianity]” has been here. (Much longer than North America has been a nameable place”

      • in shade says:

        1. Good happens in the world because we’re a species that live in a social setting and best propagate or genes by collective efforts. Therefore, we’re inherently leaning towards altruistic/compassionate behaviors.
        If we lived entirely or predominantly on our own, we would only feel fealty to our direct offspring and viciously rival any outsiders. If a lion takes over a pride, he kills all the lion cubs that aren’t his own.
        Weirdly, that’s the exact tribalism bible is condoning. Love thy neighbor literally applies to one’s own tribe only. If a village next door isn’t part of the same ideology, however, then kill every male including babies and animals and every female who fucked before. Keep the rest of females as sex slaves. Yay bible…
        2. I love this world – to a degree. It has a lot of amazing things in it. Sadly, the world is also pretty fucked up for the vast majority of humans. I lucked out. I was born in the right hemisphere to prosperous family. 5 billion other people aren’t sure whether they’d get their next meal tomorrow. Closing my eyes to the fact that, actually, the majority of everything in the world is fucked up, won’t magically make it better. If there is a god around, it created a shitty universe with shitty resource distribution and shitty rules and shitty suffering for no reason whatsoever. As a cosmic accident, we’re doing okay-ish though if we don’t solve resources/energy and climate change like yesterday we’re fucked anyway. Good try though for stardust. With god in the picture it only makes everything worse.
        3. Hominids have been on this planet at the very least for 60000 years, not 2000. For the vast majority of that time they had other beliefs, usually in nature deities like rain gods etc. Popularity or longevity of beliefs have zero bearing on their accuracy. ZERO. None.

        • Josephine says:

          I’m sorry, I’m just a bit confused here. You said that love thy neighbor only applies to on tribe and I was just wondering where in the bible it says that?. Here’s a hint: It doesn’t. God says multiple times that he loves everyone equally no matter what. It’s Christians (you know, the fallible men I talked about earlier) who really took it the wrong way and started hating on the others. Since this post is about God and not Christians, I think it’s important to point out the difference. Plus love thy neighbor was just God’s relatable way of saying love everyone. Obviously some people don’t understand exactly what he meant. It’s like Ghandi said: Christianity? I like their Christ, it’s the Christians I have the problem with.

          • in shade says:

            Right where it says you should kill all non-believers including their kids and animals and take their virgin women as slaves. Should I look up the verses for you too, or are you capable of google? 🙂

            Then god is a liar. If god loved everyone equally, god would create EXACTLY THE SAME CIRCUMSTANCES FOR EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING in which to live, EXACTLY the same access to EXACTLY the same information, and then also NOT have hell. At all.
            Instead, god throws rage tantrums and sends plagues and orders infanticide and at one point kills entire earth’s biome out of pure rage, plus has chosen people. Do you even read your bible?

            I don’t like Christ. Why is he a special snowflake? He’s done a few magic tricks, pussied out on a few hours of unpleasant corporal experience and 3 days of chilling out dead in the cave after which went to happily enjoy heaven forever and he’s special? Turned water to wine… IN A DESERT??!!! The dude could’ve, yaknow, saved MILLIONS of lives by ONE fucking phrase alone: “disease comes with dirt and grime, wash yourselves and your food, cook/boil what you can, don’t leave it at room temperature. Oh and blood letting is bullshit.” He literally could appear, say that thing alone, and disappear, and he’d be deserving of more credit.

            A guy with super powers comes over, does a few stupid parlor tricks (he’s god. He could teach everyone to read in 1 second and do more good than by sharing a fish with a few thousands…), whines to himself aka his daddy about what he KNOWS will happen to him, goes through unpleasant shit but nothing compared to how some humans suffer and for how long, and is special? Gimme a break.

  7. Pingback: God Deserves to Burn in Hell | Those Damn Liars

  8. Itsalong says:

    Let’s clarify some facts.
    Fact A: There is not one single named person in the entire Bible who is said to be headed for eternal hell/burning alive forever/eternal annihilation. Zero examples of such a thing in the Bible as it pertains to any named person past, present or future.
    Fact B: There is not one single named person in the entire Bible who is even threatened with such a fate. Zero examples of such a thing in the Bible as it pertains to any named person past, present or future.
    Where then do such stories come from? It’s a very Divinely CLEVER way that the Bible is constructed and is so to show ‘us’ just how utterly vile our own hearts are when we would seek to see that upon some other person. The facts of the text will show any truthful seeker that those who do see the ‘burning alive forever’ scenario are really just reflecting their own EVIL HEARTS.

    And if you haven’t looked around this earth lately, that fact is well and amply demonstrated daily in any case. It’s just ‘worse’ in religious people and meant to be shown.

    Advice? Avoid hypocritical liars at all costs in any engagements. They have issues, inside.

    • in shade says:

      Let’s clarify some facts, indeed:

      A. Matthew 5:22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

      B. Matthew 5:29-30 If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

      C. Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

      D. Matthew 13:38-42 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

      E. Matthew 13:49-50 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

      F. Matthew 25:46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

      G. Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

      H. Mark 9:45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell.

      I. Mark 9:47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell.

      J. Luke 12:5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

      K. Luke 16:23-24 In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

      L. 2nd Thessalonians 1:9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power

      M. James 3:6 The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.

      N. 2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;

      O. Revelations 1:18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

      P. Revelations 6:8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

      Q. Revelations 14:10-11 he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.”

      R. Revelations 19:20 But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

      S. Revelations 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

      T. Revelations 20:13-15 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he
      had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was
      thrown into the lake of fire.

      U. Revelations 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars–their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

      That’s not quoting all the indirect references to the fiery pits throughout the book…

      • Itsalong says:

        Obviously you are in the process of deprogramming, seeing your grasp of scripture. Good for you.

        If you want to understand Biblical texts, understand that they present that ‘other entities’ that are not mankind are overlapped within mankind. Essentially there are 2 entirely separate parties between everyone’s own two ears. Examples you ask? Mark 4:15, (and all the other seed ‘parables.’) Romans 7:17-21, Romans 9:19-20, Romans 11:8, Ephesians 2:2, 2 Cor. 12:7, 2 Tim. 2:20-21, 1 John 3:8 and a myriad of other scriptures.

        Is there then an eternal hell? Yes. For devils, not mankind.

        Separate the 2 parties and things clear up considerably. All have sinned past tense. All have sin, present tense. Sin is of the devil, an entity that is not mankind.

        Scientology is bowed to by people with money and supposed intelligence and they have a similar premise, that ‘Thetans’ (caused by the evil Xenu) occupy the space between our ears.

        Call ‘them’ bad thoughts, chemical imbalances, alter egos, survival instinct or what have you. It’s a similar principle. The Biblical narrative promotes common psychology disassociation theory. To separate ones self from ‘bad thoughts’ resulting in ‘bad actions.’ And it uses the natural repulsion to slavery principle that we inherently have, that slavery being to the devil.

        Jesus divided other invisible entities from within mankind on nearly every page of the N.T.

        It’s not just a man alone story. Nor is hell for man. Hell is an anti-heaven for ‘the negative entities.’

        Besides, it’s a much more interesting read when read with this fact in mind. Makes you question yourself and your reading abilities. Christians themselves are the best evidence of the matters, exposing the most vile evil on the planet from their own mouths, wanting to burn everyone alive who doesn’t believe ‘like them.’ There is evil personified, and draped with hypocrisy and lies. They sin, their sin is of the devil, but they double deal the standard, exempting themselves and condemning everyone else. There is hypocrisy exposed and a liar revealed within.

        In the name of Jesus, of course.

        • in shade says:

          Please at this point read the comment I had written in reply to Josephine, for I find it unnecessary to copy and paste. It’s right there at the top.

          • The people of Samaria must bear their guilt because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword. Their little ones will be dashed to the ground their pregnant women ripped open(Hosea 13:16). Happy is he who takes their infants and dash them against the rocks(Psalm 137:9). I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I The Lord do all these things(Isaiah 45:7).

      • Josephine says:

        Hey again,
        Fiery pits in the bible (I AM NO EXPERT THIS IS JUST ME SPEAKING FROM 134 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE) usually appear as allegories for Hell (or in the case of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego an actual pit of fire) and while i admittedly did not read all of your excerpts (Citation needed by the way) i did se many that are just metaphors. Many speak of drastic ways (like gouging your eye out) to remove sin, not because God actually wants you to do it, but because it is to show the severity of sin. Also, please do not go about your life only reading things on a surface level (otherwise you’ll never understand the real meaning behind Sleepy Hollow)

        • in shade says:

          1. Irrelevant. Eternal pay-back for conduct limited in time is asinine in principle. It wouldn’t matter if hell was just a boring room with 4 grey walls you’d stare at forever. Or a chamber full of clowns tickling you to hiccups. The main issue is that heaven/hell are eternal destiny for someone who carried out conduct limited in time.
          2. Thought crime is severe? Damn, I should be on the death row for how many times I wished to cut people to small pieces with rusty manicure scissors over a long period of time… Opsie…
          No, even killing has circumstances when the guilt is absolved. Because the world isn’t black and white and human brains aren’t robotic.
          In a moment of frustration I can wish to torture someone – in my mind. But if that SAME very moment that person would be in front of me and someone would want to hurt them or they would be hurt – I might STILL be pissed off at them but, unless my life will be in danger, I’d rush over and help. Because imagination is a normal coping mechanism, imagination is a part of normal brain functioning and learning, and thought crimes (i.e. lusting over your neighbor’s wife) should NOT have been sins at all. They are works of imagination and they are fucked up at times – how do you think scary stories and thrillers and dramas come along? Fucked up things people think of. Do you honestly equate that with actually going out of the house and torturing someone in real life? I fucking HOPE not. But your bible does…
          Weirdly, the bible instead failed in mentioning that such TRULY fucked up shit like slavery, child rape, torture, should be sins (to name a few). Instead, it vouched to devote 3 full commandments to blind obedience to authority. Instead it carries advice for how to deal with slaves and discipline them (and your wife… by beating them within an inch of their deaths), instead it suggests torture (stoning of your disobedient children outside city gates, anyone?). Instead, it settles a price for which a rapist can have his victim as a wife – no matter what SHE might think about that…
          I’m sorry, no amount of creative and metaphorical interpretation can redeem the flaws in the very fabric of that evil, ignorant, cruel, sadistic work of fiction. NONE.

  9. Andy sule says:

    there is sense in this writeup

  10. Anonymous says:

    you have to realize that religion is a thing fabricated by the people to convince themselves that there is something better waiting for them after death.

    • in shade says:

      Yeah – instead of living a great life here, they HOPE for something else afterwards, often ruining the experience of the life that is certain for themselves and everyone around them and people they don’t even know… Pathetic…

      • Josephine says:

        think from a Christian’s perspective, if you believe wholeheartedly that all of christianity (God, heaven, hell, sin) is real, then wouldn’t it be terrible of us to not try to save EVERYONE regardless if we knew them or not?

        • in shade says:

          That’s actually a very good question. The answer to it sort of depends on what flavor of Christian dogma you specifically have picked.
          There are denominations of Christianity that say those ignorant of the teachings of the faith will not be judged up on their faith. If that’s your brand, then you should go out of your way to make sure no one around has a clue you’re even a Christian, because while if you ‘carry the message’, you have a certain chance of it being heard by someone who would accept it, and a much higher chance of it falling on deaf ears. That way by spreading the message you’re condemning a bunch of people straight to hell, with only a few saves. While ignorant of the teachings will safely be judged upon their conduct as human beings.
          If you believe that every non-Christian (mind you, of YOUR specific denomination out of thousands 🙂 ) will go to hell no matter what they do in life, while every Christian no matter what they do will end up in heaven for their faith alone – then yes, you are then called to preach and convert left and right. The problem in this view is internal: there is one single criteria for entering heaven – blind faith. A serial killer who believes will be in heaven. A kind, charitable person who either didn’t find any evidence for Christian claims or never heard of it – will go to hell. If that is your brand of Christianity, I’d suggest to first ponder over why the system is such that being Hitler earns you heaven (he was a staunch believer in god), while being Bill Gates will propel you to hell (for all the charity work and advancements in technology he was instrumental for). Because in that case the entire justice system breaks down, even Biblical. “Thou shalt not kill” (while, in the book itself, already a rule with more exemptions to it than French Grammar) becomes an entirely moot point. It becomes “Thy can kill to your heart’s content, as long as you have FAITH!”. But then the biblical ideas of 10 commandments and any (however lame) attempts at any moral guidance (in the bible, sadly, more often IMmoral) become a joke. There are zero rules and restrictions and anything goes because it’s not your actions you will be judged upon. It’s your faith alone.
          So you basically would do the world a favor by either making Christianity entirely secret, or by never mentioning to anyone at all that they will ONLY judged by their faith because that’s when all hell will break loose right here on earth and you’d be the one responsible for it. Maybe you’re okay with that idea, but really, as a decent human being, you shouldn’t be. Idea of being judged purely on faith should be appalling to you.

          • Josephine Evans says:

            You know, as per your serial killer comment, that is actually a long and confusing debate in the whole Christian sphere. You see, I personally don’t believe that he’d go to heaven. Yes, the Bible says that all you have to do is believe, but a person who truly and wholeheartedly believes in Jesus really can’t kill people because the concept of belief also includes living your life just like him. They might have a very twisted version of Jesus, which would lead them to not go to heaven. There is redemption, of course, but I don’t think a serial killer who is a Christian would fly. Also, I don’t buy the whole two separate Christian ideology thing. I think many people get it wrong, the bible says that Jesus is the Way, the Truth,and the Light, no one gets to the father except through HIM. So, the whole ignorance thing doesn’t fly because the Bible says that everyone in their life will get a chance. (When it comes to Babies—thats another intense debate—I could see them getting some sort of ignorance by faith thing). Lastly, why should being judged purely on faith be appalling to me? God created this universe, He set the rules of the game, He decided that we are judged by our faith in Him. Becuase God decided this, I know that it is possible for everyone, yes, difficult for many, but possible. If you don’t like this, find another universe created by another “fairer god” to dwell in or accept the game and stop whining because you can’t do what you want without being judged.

          • in shade says:

            “the concept of belief also includes living your life just like him”, so, like… Being an irrational brat? (here’s a decent thread with compiled fun things Jesus did: http://www.rationalskepticism.org/christianity/bad-things-jesus-did-t29099.html )
            I won’t want him as my neighbor…

            Or maybe you meant like a bit more god-like? So, then, like, condemning entire humanity to hell for a catch-22 set-up that TWO people had no choice but fall for? Or, like, murder every person of different faith? Or, ehm, just DROWN THE ENTIRE HUMANITY plus all plants and animals (because FUCK them too!) because fuck them, they’re annoying little brats? So, like, Hitler was the closest by his behavior to god-like behavior, in case you forgot. Or actually maybe other dictators with bigger body count…

            You know what? Remind me also to stay the fuck away from people who want to ACT LIKE GOD DOES. That shit is scary and I don’t want to die yet. Besides, I’ve had premarital sex so yeah… (ducks for cover).

            “So, the whole ignorance thing doesn’t fly because the Bible says that everyone in their life will get a chance”
            No they won’t. Millions of people lived prior to Christianity and had exactly ZERO chance of hearing about Christ (unless you claim they could travel in time or see future…). Can you explain to me what exactly was their chance? Or they were just nice free fodder to eternal fires? Or were they forgiven for their ignorance? Then by what criteria were they judged if not faith? Why the special treatment for them and not anyone living after Christ? Mental gymnastics much?…)

            Millions of humans today live in societies that are culturally isolated from information about your god. Some live without access to any media (remote Amazonian tribal people, for example, who up until recently had no contact with civilization). What about them – tough luck?

            Being judged entirely by faith should be appalling to you if you actually have any morality. If you don’t – it’s all good, carry on.

            By the way, doesn’t your head explode from cognitive dissonance of saying that
            a) god judges ONLY by faith, not actions and
            b) I don’t think a serial killer will go to heaven just on faith alone, so… god judges NOT ONLY by faith, but by actions too?

            You feel BAD about the idea of a serial killer in heaven due to your own human morality, so you do mental gymnastics like ” well in true faith he won’t kill”. That simply isn’t true. Bible, god AND Jesus repeatedly call for killing and mass murder. Murder is totally okay in Christianity as long as it’s witches, disobedient kids, whoring women and people of another faith and their babies. Jesus came with a sword, to set father against son, and not to overturn OT rules but to strengthen them. Murder is absolutely okay in the bible. So is slavery. So is rape. So is child/human and animal sacrifice btw. READ YOUR WHOLE DAMN BOOK AND NOT JUST THE 5 HEARTWARMING VERSES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL WARM AND FUZZY INSIDE. Read it a to z. At least once. Carefully with your brain in ON mode.

            I’ll keep whining about the idea of a universe where a kind, helpful, charitable person who exercises their analytical abilities as intended arrives at a conclusion that believing old mythology on the basis of AN ANCIENT FAIRY TALE BOOK ALONE AND ZERO OTHER EVIDENCE is a stretch would go to hell, while a serial killer with deep blind devoted faith and lots of repent for the sins will go to heaven. It’s not even about it being fair – there is equally nothing fair in eternal reward as there is nothing fair in eternal punishment. It’s a bit more about the fact that this set up sounds like someone from a mental hospital thought it up. Or, yaknow, the people traveled in time and read Saw 3 script and thought “woohoo, that shit’s GORY af! Let’s totally write THAT up but, yaknow, a version full of time-appropriate ignorance and local folklore!”

  11. Anonymous says:

    Not to mention that god deserves hell MUCH MORE than we do because the bible shows god predestined the fall of man, has an elect, and predestined people to hell. It’s his fault everything bad happens and that some people are born evil. Also he laughs at people’s calamity and loves the elect but I don’t think he loves the non-elect, otherwise he wouldn’t reprobate the non-elect for sinning.

    • Josephine says:

      lets remember the difference between predestined and omnipotent (ik, they are completely different let me explain) God knows us so well, he knows every choice each of us will make. That is much different then never giving us the choice at all or forcing us to chose one. Comprenez-vous?

      • in shade says:

        You don’t understand, do you? Omniscience and free will are mutually exclusive in the very principle.
        If god knows everything, then god knows every choice we WILL make, every thought we WILL have, our whole life. If a human can go ahead ‘make a different choice’, this creates a problem for omniscience claim. If god wouldn’t KNOW about that different choice, then there is no omniscience. If god knows ahead of time about a new choice, then yes, god is omniscient. But humans aren’t tweaked by god before they’re born to make the ‘right’ choices. He creates, DELIBERATELY a vast majority of people through history who will make all the wrong choices, he KNOWS they will, he knows the choices that will be made, and he presets the consequences for those choices. So he basically is playing a sick game like in Saw 3 (if I remember the number of sequel correctly) where the traps that girl was making had seeming ‘escape routes’ through misery and pain but in reality there was no way out, just plain cruel pointless suffering and then a very gruesome painful death that she gleefully watched on camera. That girl – that’s an omniscient god.

        • Josephine Evans says:

          Ok, let’s try this in a different way: I understand what you’re saying. But i think without reading a bit of the Bible or trying to understand God, you might have a difficult time. In our lives, we all have choices, every day, every minute. But God, who is omniscient, knows us so well that he knows exactly what we’ll do just because you’re best friend knows that when you go into an ice cream shop you’ll immediately run for the pistachio, no matter how many other flavors there are, that doesn’t mean you don’t have a choice, it just means that we as humans, to God are predictable per say. And the one day that you decide to eat plain vanilla, God knows what day that’ll be. It’s like he can travel far ahead in time and see where we’ll be. Marty McFly knew Biff would grow up to be an asshole, that didn’t mean that he had to be. Capisce?

          • in shade says:

            I wish you understood yourself what you just wrote… Your circular self-contradictory arguments are astounding really.

            Example: god knows a dirty old rag will rape a little boy one evening. The boy’s free will in that scenario (my best bet is on the free will and choice to NOT SUFFER RAPE and its consequences, but fuck if I know – maybe that 5 year old monster deserved it, right?), is shoven into his little ass by the free willy of the old pervert fucking him and the full knowledge of god being there and watching it all happen. The rapist’s
            free will to rape, the murderer’s free will to kill, the crazy person’s free will to torture other humans or animals ALWAYS trump ‘free will’ of the victims to stay safe from harm. That’s a fucked up position on free will for the god to adapt as a default setting for the universe and NO, PUNISHMENT AFTER doesn’t UNDO THE DAMAGE.
            If YOU walked into a room where an old man is raping a little baby, you’d stop him. I’d hope. Would you?

            I presume you’d say yes.

            The problem is, now you’re interfering with the rapist’s free will to rape, you terrible person. You LITERALLY CAN NEVER ACT if you assume ‘free will’ of equal bearing on everyone’s behalf. Oh and god’s plan too. You can’t plan, can’t interfere with anything, can’t ever complain about anything at all, can’t cure diseases, can’t grow more food, can’t feed the hungry… your job as a human being is to stay out of the way of everyone and preserve status quo and never, EVER interfere in god’s plan and other people’s free will. Who the fuck are you to dare to? Right?

            You, if you were doing according to GOD, wouldn’t interfere in his plan. You’d stand there quietly watching the rapist finish mutilating the child, and only AFTER you’d think of administering punishment to him. Unless, of course, he repents and asks for forgiveness or buys an indulgence or happens to already be a priest… Then it’s all good, rape was great entertainment, everyone finishes their popcorn and goes home and the rapist goes to heaven.
            Your GOD stands aside and watches thousands of children being raped. So should you. Strive to be god-like.
            Your actual MORALITY will make you want to stop the rapist right that moment and call authorities and or beat him up for what he is doing. Your god’s morality is “let’s create a universe where child rape will be a thing (AT ALL! WHY is it even a thing that exists in the universe? Was there absolutely NO other way to do whatever the fucked up shit god wanted to do with this idea in ANY other way? What is god, stupid? With poor imagination? Limited in options for building universes? What kind of a shitty architect is he? NOT omnipotent – that’s for damn sure!), most cases will go unreported, no one gives a shit about the free will of the victim. It’d be fun to watch.”
            Your god makes me puke.

            Tl;dr: If god is all powerful, he could NOT crate evil and suffering.
            If god had no choice and he HAD to create evil and suffering, if god has no way to CHANGE anything in the universe, then god is not all powerful.
            If god COULD create a different universe with no mindless pain and suffering, but didn’t, CAN change things, but doesn’t, then god is evil.

            Pick your poison.

  12. Absolutely says:

    Especially when he Punishes the innocent people like us.

    • Josephine says:

      Gid does not see us as innocent as we all sin. look briefly at the 10 commandments, if you can honestly say that you’ve never broken any of them, look at 1 corinthians 6:9. Once you’ve realized that you (like all of us) have broken at least one look at romans 6:23 and see what God has spared us.

      • in shade says:

        God creates the universe, all humans, all circumstances surrounding humans, their ways of functioning and thinking, the ‘evil’ around them, all the cognitive ‘traps’ to make sure his message is as absurd as it can be and delivered in the least reliable format possible, then makes everything humans are made to enjoy doing or will need to be doing in history a sin, then somehow by the amazing grace condemns the majority of humanity to hell and ‘spares’ a select few? You honestly find that a comforting idea? You, obviously, think you’re one of the select few if you’re a believer. Then I’ve god news for you: you’re a narcissist of meta proportions. You think a potential creator of the universe gives a flying fuck about what you say and do and whom you shag and what you wear and eat and when, and somehow by carrying specific delusions in your head you’d earn a warm place by its side where you won’t be tortured like the rest of idiots who ever lived and will live? You’re sure one special snowflake…
        False humility like “Oh I’m just a humble servant of god” is even more fucked up.
        Newsflash: an omnipotent god wouldn’t need your or anyone else’s servitude. He’s fucking omnipotent. He can do whatever he wants whenever he wants, and doesn’t need an ape on a space dust particle to help him. Get over yourself.

        • Josephine Evans says:

          No actually, God doesn’t create sin. In fact, he can’t even be around it. That’s the whole reason that we are down here and he is up in heaven. Literally one of the first chapters of the bible discusses this. Keep up. TBH, I am a pretty special snowflake. The Bible even says it. But it also says that everyone is special in God’s eyes equally. Yes, God is omnipotent and doesn’t need us. he wants us (another major part of the bible, please TRY to keep up) he created us essentially because he wanted us. Backtracking a bit: I guess I am a part of a special few (not really few because there are TONS of Christians), a special few in a relationship with God and yeah, it’s pretty great knowing that God gives a Flying Fuck about me, but he (ONCE AGAIN) gives one about everyone. Even you IN Shade, you just have to reach out to him and find him out there, in your life. You are special too, you just have to accept it.

          • in shade says:

            No actually.
            DID god create the universe as it is, and everything in it as he wanted it to be? According to you, yes he did. Then, unless you have an issue understanding the concept of someone who CREATES EVERYTHING THERE IS, god also created the sin, the conditions for sin to even exist, and condemns everyone to engage in sin by setting the universe in a way it’s set up.
            Or are you arguing there was a separate creator for the sin? Who then? Satan? God created Satan. God KNEW (god is omniscient, remember?) Lucifer will ‘fall’ and start his shenanigans. God had a CHOICE to TWEAK the universe/its rules before creating it in ANY way he wanted. He CHOSE this specific arrangement and made it be. He CREATED EVIL, SIN AND SUFFERING BECAUSE he created THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE AND EVERYTHING in it. EVERYTHING. Know the definition of everything? It means EVERY THING, and it does NOT mean “everything, except for… (those things I don’t like because it makes me uncomfortable to think my favorite invisible friend was an asshole who did that too)”. Everything means everything that exists. Sin exists? God created it. Satan exists? God crated it, or created the processes that led to it existing. He green-lighted the project “universe” in full knowledge of how it will run. He’s omniscient, remember? Your GOD CREATED ALL EVIL AND ALL SIN.

            Oh by the way: is god omnipresent? Because then he’s by definition EVERYWHERE. Watching and participating in every blowjob, every murder, every child being raped, he’s inside the shit in your asshole, so he’s definitely right there where the sin is.
            Unless, of course, he’s NOT omnipresent…

            So think hard and answer me this: IS god omniscient? IS he omnipotent? And IS he omnipresent? If he is, you have no way to wiggle your way out of the trap those qualities put god into by their very implication.
            Unless you want to claim god is limited in either his knowledge, power, or presence.

            God who fits your definition of a god (omni-whatever god) can’t WANT anything either. Please refer to why your god, if it exists and fits your definition of an omni-everything god, wouldn’t give a flying fuck about anyone or anything in a post devoted to that topic here: https://inshadecontemplating.wordpress.com/2011/11/23/nothing-personal/

            The only thing a creator of this universe, if such were to be discovered, if it crated the universe as it is with either intent on it being that way or knowledge of it ending up this way, would ever get from me would be a spit in the face and a string of profanities. That’s all such an asshole deserves.

  13. Bill says:

    Had I come across this while still a Christian, I’d likely have either answered “no” to 3 or arrived at a slight modification to conclusion A: “God exists, and has a moral code that modern society would consider abhorrent.” Some other comments here have already mentioned that there are certain things the Christian God can’t do, and the Book of Job alone (which, incidentally, was what led me to deconvert) illustrates a lot of the incompatibilities between divine and human morality, so to speak.

    I once had a pastor who countered the latter line of thought with something like “yes, but He’s good by definition, and we have no choice but to follow His thinking or be tortured for eternity” – sort of like what one would have to do to survive in a totalitarian regime. Submission to a despicable power is strongly against my own moral code no matter the alternative, so I didn’t buy this, but do you have a counterargument that doesn’t assume a low valuing of self-preservation?

    • in shade says:

      Well, we’re bouncing off the objective reality. Objectively, there is exactly no meaning whatsoever to human existence or nonexistence and the universe really doesn’t ‘care’ in any way.
      Subjectively, it is actually quite amazing how death of billions of stars created the building blocks of our planet and our bodies, and if you consider every staggering step it took to arrive at you through billions of years, you are sort of a unique collection of self-reflecting, self-aware stardust that would never have been the same had any single tiny step in the chain of events differed. So in that sense you’re important as a unique creature who experiences higher awareness than a plant, for instance. However, the universe still doesn’t care.
      For our planet exclusively, it is arguably a better scenario in which humans don’t exist or at least not in such numbers. Either way you look at it, the only driving forces for self preservations are the instincts embedded in us by the need of our genetic information to replicate and carry on. As well as, subjectively, by any meaning we choose to impose on our existence ourselves…
      Not sure this really answer your question. I guess the answer is to me that self-preservation inherently carries no value at all and there’s no objective way around it. Subjective ways – sure. That’s why humanity is still around 🙂

  14. Anonymous says:

    Yes. I know some people here don’t believe in God. But God sent demons to possess me and oppress me. They had done so many cruel things God has done to me along with his Devils. One day I saw Jesus in cloud form laughing at me. Then years later I read how he saved a little girl from dying and kissed her on the cheek and probably said he loves her. I did so much for Jesus because I loved him more than the world had to offer. When I was upset one day, I felt Jesus presence look at me in an extremely cruel way. Like I was a joke. Like my suffering was funny. But he is not cruel to a lot of females, but chooses (well at least his father does) who will be predestined to hell before their even in their mothers womb (it is in the bible and God told me). I was one of the Christians that tried to be nice and make God happy and love him the best way I could. Even when I found out God has an elect. Human men are better than Jesus, and Jesus is a cruel bastard. I hate “God.” And God the father is the worst father ever. He plays favorites and punishes the innocent.

    • in shade says:

      It’s indeed shitty parenting when you literally create your kids the exact way of your choosing, create every single circumstance of their existence, possess all the knowledge of their every future action and thought, then somehow get mad for them doing exactly as expected… Most lower order animals are much better parents than god!

      • Josephine Evans says:

        Lord, your ignorance is astonishing! what’s next, do you support Donald Trump too? Anyways,You got it backwards, because God gives us so much, he actually expects us to do what’s right. The bible says that he never gives us anything we can’t bear (that doesn’t mean that it’s not hard), so he actually doesn’t expect us to fail. quite the opposite. What’s your address, I’d like to send you something called the King James Bible. With it you can field all of your gaudy claims and throw out some of the really bad ones beforehand.

      • in shade says:

        Lord, you apologetics are fantastic :). You’ll sit here making claims based on A FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT FAN FICTION FROM THOUSANDS OF YEARS BACK WRITTEN BY ANONYMOUS PEOPLE HUNDREDS OF YEARS AFTER THE ALLEGED EVENTS, with literally NOT A SINGLE HISTORICAL PIECE OF EVIDENCE supporting any of the stories of that fan fiction folk tale collection (why should they), unless they circle right back to the book itself, and you’ve got all the answers?
        God gives you a shitty, inhospitable universe, with 75% of the surface of your small, vulnerable planet uninhabitable entirely, with majority of organisms on earth out to kill you or make you super sick (and possibly kill you), where the rules of the pointless game (it IS pointless if you insist on god’s omniscience. Maybe you will accept god is NOT all-knowing? Then we can chat.) are rigged against the vast majority of the population for shits and giggles alone, where there is eternal payback for conduct limited in time (in itself asinine idea), makes sure to leave ZERO TRACE of itself and any claims people make about characters in his favorite piece of ancient literature, riddles that piece of literature with piece of shit advice and ignorance and violence and tantrum fits just to make sure no REASONABLE human being unless deeply self-deluded will ever buy into that bullshit, and sits back laughing watching shit unfold he KNEW ALREADY will unfold for… what? Entertainment? He already knows the outcome of the game for every character. Why play the game? Right…. god is bored and wants reality TV, that’s why.

        If I put a 10 year old kid into the middle of an ocean on a boat with a plastic bag, an oar, a compass and, shit, I’d be generous: a fish hook, then watch him slowly die, laughing and saying ” well, yeah it’s HARD, but you had EVERYTHING YOU NEEDED to row ashore and catch food, you stupid cunt! What do you MEAN the currents were stronger than your malnourished muscles? What a fuck you complain about – diarrhea? Fever and delirium caused by severe dehydration and raw food and exposure to the elements? Fucking PUSSY! WORSHIP ME FOR I GAVE YOU ALL YOU NEEDED TO SURVIVE AND YOU FUCKED IT UP, you little cunt!” – if I did this in reality, you’d lock me into either a prison or a psychiatric ward for the dangerously insane.

        But the moment you substitute ‘god’ into my position, it miraculously becomes absolutely fine.
        Why special pleading for the god? Again, because a book said it’s ok? Because it’s an authority figure? Because you DON’T ACTUALLY HAVE AN ANSWER that won’t make you sound like a fucking monster? That’s just sad.

  15. Just passing by because it was a bad day says:

    Hi In Shade; first of all, thank you; it was a really bad day today and the implied rage of your post made me smile. I do think, at most as you do. Depending on the day I understand that God doesn’t exists or if I really need to blame someone for something, I just start to believe in God that bit to throw some shit at him. I know it is not consistent at all holding that duality, but not everything needs to be rational; if it helps to keep me going, it’s enough for me. However, I also think that if in the end such a thing exists, well, at last, the least it can do is to serve as my personal shitting dartboard.

    But I want to point you just a few things, for the sake of this dialogue, since I am happily surprised of the quality you are managing to keep.

    This is something lots of us (God haters at best) do usually do wrong when claiming about His missdoings. We usually point that if a believer accept that he is omnipotent and omniscient then he must accept it’s evilness. But in that argumentation there is something we are not understanding so good either. Absolute “omnipotency” (I’m so sure probably that’s not the way to spell that word, but also too lazy to search for the translation from spanish, so bear it). All your argumentation assumes that God is still limited by something: logical laws. If He is limited by such a thing, then your points would be true; but also your starting point in which He is omnipotent would be false (since he wouldn’t be able to violate or surpass logic law, which would be antecessors of him). If not clear, though since you seem pretty smart I’m sure you’ll have already catched my point; think of the meditation in which Descartes considers the idea of a “Demiurgo” (again too lazy to seek for a translation, but I guess it would be spelled something alike) which were able to make sentences such as “A = A” seem to our understanding as tautology, ultimate truth, although they could be absolute false, as if it was able to play with our brains/minds to make us always use wrong the logic laws. Maybe “(((a > b) ^ a) > b)” is the most flagrant fallacy but that Demiurgo changes constantly our thinking and the world itself to fool us. Or maybe “(a ^¬a)” a tautology…

    This is just to show how when talking about such thing, not even logic is a good tool. Because with something of the caliber of a truly omnipotent being; it doesn’t even need to fool us. It can create a deterministic world in which It knows everything that is going to happen and still add free wil to the equation (and I’m by far not thinking about multiple realities with all of our choices on them and a God knowing them all). I’m thinking on a single reality with all of our choices already set up since the beggining, and still being all of us “freewilled” beings; because the principle of no-contradiction doesn’t apply for a think such as God. Is not just that in it’s presence, not only something self contradoctory as such can be truth if It wishes so, but that even it just need to decide by it’s power that it is not contradictory and that law would be stronger than the logic ones, so those ones would be the ones wrong for that case; making by the same strike logic inconsistent too.

    I think this is what it pulsates as a hiden argument in Josephine’s words about God knowing everything and still being “free” even if she doesn’t understand pretty much what I’m saying (the only thing I would be harsh to you In Shade is that I think you are going to hard on a too young girl; she is wrong; but she has been (on the beggining) more polite than you; but also I’m not attacking you either, because of that… people must learn before bringing themselves to narrow corners, age is not an excuse at all). Also I don’t think if Josephine would still want to keep this as a hidden premise of her… because it is a very and unavoidable slipery slope ( 😉 I reat your other post just because I liked how you wrote, so i’ll use your terms).

    But what gets worse from here is that… for example; It can be both the ultimate evil of the universe and the summun of good at a same time if It whises to. Well, in fact, It can just do bad things the whole time and still have not a drop of evilness in him, but only good, just, caring and loving thing; just because of the power of it’s Colosal Dick.

    Christ! (Did I just say Christ?) It can even exist and not exist at the same time. Or better, not exist while existing…

    In the end; to our sadness, if we the atheist/god haters want to go with logic to the end of it’s consecuences in the subject of God, we must accept it’s limitations, and even if we don’t like some conclusions, do not reject them because of their “taste” to avoid being us the ones who use falacy… We cannot, in the end, make one believer acept that the only logical conclusion is to acept that God is “bad” (or does not exist) but we, at least can corner them to one point: If it is a good thing, then it is beyond human logic, and in that case (which is one 4th option you did not mentioned) human is, essentially unable (and will be until God wants to) to distinguish between good and evil. So, they can defend that their God is a good thing, but do not pretend to defend it on any human logic, but in God itself (and Its big dick/vagina/both/alien tentacles).

    Although if God says it can alse be defended on Human logic despite it being self contradictory… oh man, then we are screwed… Let’s hope It doesn’t xD (if so, FIND IN THE BIBLE!).

    Well… here I retreat to my cave; again, thank you In Shade; probably I’ll come here back to check if you answered me 🙂

    PS: I know there are no good excuses to use languaje wrong. Here is my weak excuse: It is not my native languaje, I hope that despite the many grammar, semantical and ortography mistakes I sure have comitted, I could have written this clearly enough to be understandable and not make your eyes bleed… I promiss I have made my best efforts.

  16. Kristi Carter says:

    This is the best article I’ve ever read and argues the exact same points I have tried to make to the Jesus freaks in my family. I grew up going to church but quit going when I was a teenager and thought logically. I just didn’t believe in God; however, since my 65 year old mother (who went to church, taught Sunday school and worshipped that piece of shit her entire life) recently developed Alzheimer’s disease, I did begin to believe that if he does exist, he deserves to burn in his own hell. How could people worship such a hypocritical, judgmental, vain, murdering jackass??? Thanks for the article!

  17. Alex says:

    Praying for you now… one day you will remember this comment and realize that you are truly wrong before it’s to late.. God loves you but you choose not to love him. You’re whole theory that we do not have freewill iz extremely wrong. You have the choice to do whatever you’d like because of his unmeasureable love.. again I hope you I hardened your heart before it’s to late..god loves you so much he allows you to make your own choices, for the “traps” you talk of are not traps but true.. please state one verse that is not true..

  18. Kristi says:

    Very well said. Agreed 100% and thank you for this article. I’ve been trying to explain this to brainwashed wackos and now have a great way to say it.😀

  19. Anonymous says:

    Perfect! You get it. God is a PEDO piece of shit, all time failure

  20. Anonymous says:

    God is a filthy cock sucking pig faggot that should burn in hell with Satan since that filthy low life piece of shit keeps punishing many of us innocent people for NO REASON at all.

  21. Anonymous says:

    God you fucking no good piece of shit faggot, burn in hell where you fucking belong. Hail Satan.

  22. Anonymous says:

    God is a very evil scumbag piece of shit the way i look at it since he keeps punishing many of us good innocent people for no reason at all. And that low life diseased infested faggot never punishes the very bad people out there that should really burn in hell with that fucking faggot God which would be real justice.

  23. DM says:

    Karma and reincarnation solve the problem of evil. Those who seem to be paying a price they don’t deserve are paying their own karma from past lives. Einstein said that energy can’t be destroyed, and it can’t. Your consciousness is energy. It does not come from your brain, your brain merely helps it manifest on the physical plane. So that explains reincarnation. While it’s true we have been given free will, our free will becomes more and more restricted due to our own karma. We can’t just “do what we want” until we have a clean slate. Until our debts are paid. All this being said, the path to God and salvation is extremely difficult to find. That I cannot explain. Perhaps it is our collective karma.

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