God deserves to burn in hell

There is no god. But let’s think for a second about a scenario where there would have been an architect of the universe of some sorts, whether a magical god of any type, or simply a higher form of physical intelligence. Thus, for the sake of the argument in this post, let’s presume some form of a higher power exists. Would it be warranted to try to please and praise and listen to such a being? The short answer is no way. The longer argument is as follows:

Any maker of our universe could either completely not give a damn about it, in which case it is fully irrelevant, or have some vested interest in stuff that’s going on inside it. According to many people, the ‘interested’ higher power is exactly what there is. And insofar as it is interested (although it’s a bit difficult to conceive of the highest form of intelligence in the universe that would give a damn about what some amoebae that we are compared to it may be doing or saying…), people go out of their ways to try to second-guess what may please such a being and tickle its vanity…  Why all this is absurd in and of itself is covered in my other post “Nothing Personal“, so let’s move on to the current subject at hand, which is the following: even IF there had been a higher power, it is unworthy of regard, let alone obedience and praise.

ANY ‘interested’ or capable of empathy higher power (magic or not) who would have made such a universe as ours is a psychopathic sadist. That is ANY architect of the cosmos, even if it’s aliens. Most people’s version of a god is claimed to be ‘loving’ or ‘caring’. Any of their gods ‘loves’ everyone SO friggin’ much that it couldn’t conceive of creating any other type of universe for its ‘dearly beloved’ than the most inhospitable, cruel and difficult one to exist in. As a special token of boundless adoration, it made sure that the vast majority of life forms, including sentient apes called ‘humans’, who’d ever exist and would be self-aware enough to experience suffering definitively WOULD suffer. Most of them for absolutely no wrongdoings of their own and in manners that would serve absolutely zero purpose. For example, there are babies who are born with a genetic disorder that causes the butterfly wings syndrome: they lack proteins that bind different layers of skin. As a result, any touch to them causes blisters and bleeding – even ingesting food is torture. They suffer excruciating pain every minute of their lives and die quickly. Examples like this one are countless.

The usual lame excuses given for such suffering on behalf of the innocents is that these are either older souls who have already collected some sins upon them, or martyr souls sent down to teach a lesson of compassion to others, or blessed souls who through a brief period of suffering in this realm quickly earn a pass to an eternal bliss in a heaven. If you, the reader, think either of the three is a legit excuse – congratulations. You’re a monster. For the actual moral beings out there, none of the three scenarios add up. At the end of this piece there is a series of questions that any believer should carefully consider. There is no scenario to make any architect of this universe in the state that it is be good. None. Zero.

In addition, in many versions of an architect of the universe there exists some sort of a cozy retreat that is also designed by such an architect called ‘hell’. People suffer there eternally as a ‘punishment’ for limited in time and scope (and mostly profoundly mundane) ‘transgressions’. It’s a bit difficult to conceive of such a collection of wrongdoings, no matter how violent and cruel and numerous, that would warrant any form of an eternal retribution… In fact, it is impossible – that is, if you are a sane, moral human being. But I digress…

So here’s that higher power who decided upon creating that model of the universe where such stuff happens routinely… It’s created the universe, and now is watching all the horrible things happen and (if you believe in that) poor punished ones writhe in eternal agony in hell, maybe even feeling sad about it but doing fuck all to change the situation. In psychology it’s classified as sadism and psychopathy. In the framework of any type of a belief, it is classified as ‘benevolence’ and ‘working in mysterious ways’ and ‘non-interference with ‘free will’…

Neither of those excuses is anything but a lame attempt to somehow justify and absolve of fault of the greatest asshole imaginable. Let’s see about benevolence: I, a ‘lower’ life form, am far better than any god can dream of being. Because in 10 minutes time I can brainstorm a far better, fairer universe than it came up with. In the words of a wise man, Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? –Epicurus. There truly is no squaring that circle, no matter how hard one tries. If even I can think of a universe that, let’s grant even, WOULD include some degree of hardship and suffering and death, but won’t include abundance of all of the above that serves no imaginable purposes of any sorts (like the mentioned butterfly wings syndrome) – why didn’t the all-powerful architect of the universe manage to create a better model?

The ‘mysterious ways’ argument is very well addressed by Jim Jefferies and needs no further mention on my behalf:

As to the (non-existent) ‘free will’ thing… It doesn’t cut it. Here is why: take person A being the perpetrator of a violent crime and person B being that crime’s victim. Person’s a ‘free will’ is to execute that violent crime on person B. However, what the ‘free will’ proponents forget about roughly 100% of the time is the person B and their free will. Incidentally, person B’s free will is NOT to be a victim of a violent crime. Now what? Now it’s a standstill between two free wills that happen to be for opposing events. How does the all-powerful entity most often resolve that issue? By rooting for person A’s free will – because violent crimes on fully innocent victims happens ALL THE FUCKING TIME. Some may wish to begin arguing that no one is without a ‘sin’, of some sorts. Even if – what about violent crimes against little babies and kids? Oh, go ahead, push it: the ‘original sin’ that every newborn is already born with. Let’s take a baby/child that hasn’t been ‘absolved’ from that ‘sin’ through baptism or what not: the MAJORITY of human babies will never be dipped into water to ‘cleanse’ them off that – that’s a pretty bad model in and of itself. But even if one assumes the equal  ‘guilty cuz of Adam and Eve’ standing: that means all unbaptized humans start off at an equal ground: Person A’s standing sin-wise is no better or worse than baby B’s standing, if they’re both unbaptized, right? Right. Then it’s irrelevant. It’s a moot point and we’re back to trying to square person’s A ‘free will’ desire to commit the violent crime against the baby B, and baby B’s ‘free will’ to stay safe from it… It just simply doesn’t add up. What if person A is baptized and baby B isn’t? Well I’m sorry but if pouring a little water onto someone gives them a license to then abuse others then any belief system supporting such idea is asinine. Frankly, as ANY belief system is.

So there’s that interested higher intelligence, who not only couldn’t do any better than create a rather fucked up universe like ours with rather fucked up things happening in it routinely to completely innocent victims, but for the entire duration of existence of this universe watches it all unfold… Here’s a generic example. Take a little kid getting raped. The claimed god/higher power stands by watching a little innocent kid get raped (probably jacks off to that, too) and only THEN (in some versions of god-related beliefs)  reminds there MAY be punishment (in other versions you get reborn as a cockroach or something else happens, but the main point is, retribution is for the done deed and it’s delayed in time). In many cases there doesn’t even have to be a punishment – the rapist only needs to repent or pray or follow through with some silly ritual and boom – full forgiveness and heaven. Unlike such a joke of a deity, I, were I in that position and power, would never ALLOW for something so sick, twisted, pointless and harmful as child rape to ever happen in the first place. But a higher power does. All the time…

All this is exactly the reason why it confuses me that some people insist on singing praise to a dick infinitely worse than all violent criminals and wrongdoers of all sorts in the whole history – combined. In fact, no matter how one tries to twist and tango out of the fact, the creator of the universe is, ultimately, by selecting the grounds and framework of that universe, fully responsible for every single death, misfortune, occasion of pain, grief, sorrow, for every crime and every other reprehensible act and occasion in the universe. Because the architect could create any different model of the universe – but chose to create such that contains all that bullshit. Praise and obedience is the last combo such an architect would deserve – it instead would deserve a strong kick in the nuts and a spit in the face – at best.

According to many, such an architect is eternal… An eternal power responsible for an eternal array of pain, crime and woe of all kinds… This sounds to me that, if there was an eternal hell, such an architect would, in fact, be the only creature fully deserving of an eternal vacation in that hell for all it’s done.

To the apologists out there STILL not getting the point, here is a series of questions to keep asking yourselves until you do.

1. Who created everything? (according to your faith, it’s most likely the god. Right? Right. Moving on).

2. Just to make absolutely sure: was there anything or anyone or any force that, according to your faith existed BEFORE your god? (presumably, the answer is ‘nope!’).

3. Is your god according to your faith ALL KNOWING and ALL POWERFUL? (Surely the answer must be ‘yes’, or it isn’t a god we’re talking about – just some lower-range supernatural being at best.)

4. Given premise 3, COULD god have created ANY type of a universe it would want to create? Could it tweak laws of physics so that humans could fly or would have 5 legs or be entirely transparent or just WHATEVER THE FUCK IT WANTED? ANY arrangement of rules and conditions at all? And this, my darlings, is the KEY question. If the answer is ‘no’, then something that restricts a god’s power exists. Then it’s no longer a god. It’s a magic being of a lower order. For most faiths though the answer is ‘OF COURSE IT COULD DO ANYTHING!’ In case of that answer, proceed.

5. Keeping in mind the ‘yes’ answer to question 4, just to make sure: did the god then CHOOSE to create the universe in its current shape and form with the rules that exist in it for all creatures in it? You have to answer ‘yes’ to this if you answered ‘yes’ to number 4.

6. This isn’t a question any more. This is a logical conclusion to your answers. And it is the following: your god CONSCIOUSLY, DELIBERATELY CHOSE to create a universe the way it is, with rules as they are. It CHOSE to crate a universe where pointless suffering was abundant, life short and difficult, resources scarce and where babies get raped or have butterfly wing syndrome or worms eating their brains. It CHOSE TO create a universe where evil is conceptually possible. It CHOSE to create a universe with impossible to follow rules to bail one out of an ETERNAL retribution for a FINITE number of ‘transgressions’. It CHOSE TO.

7. Main question: WHY? WHY did an all-knowing, all-powerful entity CHOOSE to make this universe the way it is and not any better? Answer this.

If you answer starting with ‘because humans disobeyed…’, or ‘because the devil/forces of evil…’ or ‘because free will…’, or ANYTHING that starts with ANY OPTION EXCEPT FOR ‘BECAUSE GOD…’, then go back to answering every question again starting with question 2. Think about it. Explain how in your understanding a yet NON-EXISTENT creature/concept could influence the INITIAL MODEL of the universe created by a god who was alone out there before.

It couldn’t. Or you strip god from its being all-powerful and thus being a god at all.

When you have worked your way through all the other options and finally arrive to ‘because god…’ ones (this INCLUDES your favorite pull-out-of-the-ass-when-left-with-nothing-else-to-say “because god works in mysterious ways” aka “humans can’t understand the mind of god”, by the way), work through them by answering every question above again starting with question number 3.

If you’re an honest human being with half a brain, you can ultimately arrive to one of the ONLY three possible conclusions:

A. God exists and is the cruelest motherfucker in the universe.

B. God exists and doesn’t give a single fuck about this universe.

C. There’s no god. Definitely no god worthy of listening to and/or praising.

If you’re still coming up with excuses, you haven’t thought too hard about the questions. Go back and do it. Spend years on it if needed.

If, on the other hand, you think you can convince me that I’m wrong about the only 3 available options, please be my guest. My only two requirements for you if you want to argue for an existence of a god, who 1) exists and 2) is GOOD are very simple:

1. You lose you argument the moment you reference ANY ‘holy’ text/s.

2. You lose you argument the moment you use a logical fallacy instead of an actual point. (Here, I’ll make it easier for you: list of traps to avoid can be found here. Extra bonus points if you can identify the type of a logical fallacy that condition 1 preempts ;))

Good luck. Something tells me the universe will arrive to its death before an answer differing from the proposed 3 options will emerge.

About in shade

A cocktail of personality traits hard to digest for some but ultimately soothing for those who can. I observe, enjoy, travel, interact, photograph, dance, contemplate, write and love my way through this life's countless occurrences. This blog is a way to share with the world and its people some of the treasures they give me every day.
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29 Responses to God deserves to burn in hell

  1. Pingback: Gods’ PR agents – why do they suck? | Contemplating

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  3. I totally agree with you. Basically we are forced to come to this sick and sadistic world against our own will by some so called sick sadistic God. It is not like it gave us the choice of being we wanted to be or come here to earth for that matter. If this God and Jesus does exist they are the ones who deserve to burn in a lake of fire for all eternity in utter indescribable torture. Christians may then say well Jesus died on the cross for our sins. Well Jesus being tormented for all eternity is he. Jesus so called sacrifice was insignificant compared to what a lot of people and children have endured. I had a mental breakdown over this shit when I was 14. Death would have been preferable than have to go through that again. I have heard preachers say they would rather burn in hell for eternity instead of it be their loved ones. Then how is Gods love greater than these preachers. Why wouldn’t God do this for us when he put us here knowing well in advance of what would happen. I could never worship such a sick, twisted, and sadistic being.

    • Josephine says:

      As a Christian, i find most of these very insulting, but interesting, may i ask why do you feel this way? i believe that yes, horrible things happen, but most are causes of our own free will. and for cases like illnesses that people cannot prevent, yes they are bad, and yes, they are in God’s permissive will, but they are not caused by God, but by Satan, for God is only good and can’t do bad or even think bad thoughts. Lipstick Lesbian, as a 14 year old myself i cant empathize with your sorrow, and i have preferred death many times, but it was God who helped me through, when i felt alone, he was there, i only wish that you had the same experience. and if you think about it this is what Jesus went through: brutally whipped with a whip equipped with spokes, his back was described to look like a lb of uncooked ground beef (google image search), then he had to walk while dragging a huge cross on his raw back to his death. then he had nails dug into his wrist and feet and then hung, and then after hours of torment, after having to drink his own blood and a spear shoved up through his thigh. Jesus died. this was done by the people he tried to save. i think Having to wait 33 years, knowing that you would die a brutal death seems to be worst than being a teenage girl. plus, jesus went through adolescence. the bible says that there is nothing new under the sun, everything that we went through, there are so many others who did the same and survived.

      • in shade says:

        As a human being, I find your desire to justify the potential god’s conduct morally repulsive.
        Is god the most powerful fellow in your imaginary universe, or is it NOT? Because if god is all powerful, then “Satan” should not exist in the first place. Unless, of course, the god is a sadistic meta-asshole of the most epic proportions. Or doesn’t give a flying fuck about anything in the universe. Or, a more likely scenario, doesn’t exist.
        There is NO (read carefully: N.O.N.E.) excuse for evil in the world that a god isn’t 100% responsible for. NONE. By the virtue of having created the universe the way it is and, thus, all the evil in it that follows or ever did ALONE god is the ultimate fucking asshole.
        People who worship such an asshole (however imaginary) and make up excuses of all sorts are liars (because you lie about your god’s qualities ALL the time. That’s the down side of having a favorite character from a book to follow that a load of illiterate desert dwellers fan-fiction wrote over centuries, based on fairy tales that concerned themselves VERY little with truth or consistency…), hypocrites (because as long as you insist that god designed the universe, you can’t blame evil on ANYONE ELSE. And you do. You can’t. Just CAN’T) and morally bankrupt human beings (for no normal human being with actual morality intact would defend the utmost force of evil in the universe with such fierce fanaticism…).
        Josephine, please digest the following little fact: the moment you lay a claim that the universe (and everything in it) was designed and created by a god, this INCLUDES ALL EVIL in it. Period.
        This is plain as day without even going into “free will” debate (which is, again, entire fucking nonsense and a lie – the omniscience of a god makes it impossible to have as much as a notion of a free will. No, there are no sneaky semantic ways of wiggling yourself out of this one either – god either knows everything, then NO FREE WILL can exist by definition, or god doesn’t know anything much about some space monkeys on a rock – and then why call that creature god at all).

        • Josephine says:

          dissecting/discussing a few of your words
          “Is god the most powerful fellow in your imaginary universe, or is it NOT? Because if god is all powerful, then “Satan” should not exist in the first place. Unless, of course, the god is a sadistic meta-asshole of the most epic proportions.”
          -I am actually not sure what you mean by this. for clarification, Satan was one of God’s angels who decided he wanted to be as powerful as God and started an uprising. Because God is “the most powerful fellow” he easily squashed this revolution and banished Satan and his demons to earth (which is now why we see his terribleness in things like this post and ISIL.)

          “the moment you lay a claim that the universe (and everything in it) was designed and created by a god, this INCLUDES ALL EVIL in it. Period.”
          1) we all have free will (if we didn’t you’d be forcibly a christian (all of us would) and there’d be no evil in the world because God would have us not be)
          2) because God made us (humans) on this earth (the same Satan was banished to and given dominion over) we easily flock towards the attractive and easy life of Sin.

          “People who worship such an asshole (however imaginary) and make up excuses of all sorts are liars (because you lie about your god’s qualities ALL the time. That’s the downside of having a favorite character from a book to follow that a load of illiterate desert dwellers fan-fiction wrote over centuries, based on fairy tales that concerned themselves VERY little with truth or consistency…), hypocrites”
          -to me, the meaning of this excerpt is slightly dubious but I think you are saying that God’s qualities are inconsistent and made up. Which ones are you referring to? a few of God’s qualities that i can think of are: love, peaceful, omnipotent, faithful (to us) and also jealous and just. I think that because God is both Jealous and Just which shows that he is not afraid to punish us, make it seem like he is a hypocrite. my only response is that God is God, we are his children and human, we don’t have the same rules, responsibilities, and knowledge as God has, the desire for this is what created Lucifer to begin with…

  4. I have often wondered about the inanity, pain, suffering; then I read about people, sages, saints, all mystics, whose experience transforms their understanding and comprehension totally. That leads me to consider there is something beyond my senses, but still within the realm of human experience, that exists and can be known within our own being.

    • in shade says:

      Yeah it’s called “the brain”. Heard of it? Has a peculiar ability to, you know, have random ideas and stuff… And to be self-aware… And to make up magic people in the sky when faced with gaps in understanding…😉

  5. Pingback: God Deserves to Burn in Hell | Design Interaction

  6. Richard says:

    Don’t worry. All that shit is based upon the North Americans Christian view of things, which we all know is pretty fucked up. It’s also funny that there is this desperate need to have a ‘white knight’ save humans from the shit humans do to each other. Humans create hell right here on earth now, why wait for the ‘afterlife’ to experience torment and frustration? Always looking outside to find what’s wrong, point the finger and declare that ‘I won’t change until you do’. Ever notice that in all recorded human history that humans have NEVER lived in harmony for an extended period EVER? And just about all of them were looking toward several (today – mostly one, that’s modernization for ya) God’s to save their asses too? Perhaps it’s time to quit looking outside to find humanities salvation from someone or something else – history shows it’s JUST NOT THERE.

    • in shade says:

      Well said.
      It’s a perfectly evolutionary set of traits that makes us so susceptible of seeing/inferring agency and intent in all random events that mean something to us. One would have hoped, however, that by now as humanity we would have all learned about our brains’ shortcomings and would be cautious about them. But nooooo, keep making up imaginary sky friends to blame everything on so that your monkey ass feels falsely comforted by an imaginary sense of order in this very, VERY random universe of ours… Then spend your life trying to second-guess which hand does that imaginary sky being wants you to wipe your ass with and how many times. Instead of, you know, living a LIFE of ACTUAL meaning and consequence…
      Sad, sad world…

    • Josephine says:

      History shows that Like the bible says, men are fallible, we make mistakes, we sin (commit horrible crimes) yet amongst it all we are still here. Good still happens in the world. If you read / hear one thing from my comment please hear that no matter how bad it feels out there (in the world), there is always good. that is not just a Christian speaking but someone who likes happiness in the world. Also, Christianity started almost 2016 years ago (the date is a handy way to remember that) and even before that because it stemmed from Judaism which has many of the same values originally, so, since the beginning of humans on this earth essentially, “North [American Christianity]” has been here. (Much longer than North America has been a nameable place”

  7. Pingback: God Deserves to Burn in Hell | Those Damn Liars

  8. Itsalong says:

    Let’s clarify some facts.
    Fact A: There is not one single named person in the entire Bible who is said to be headed for eternal hell/burning alive forever/eternal annihilation. Zero examples of such a thing in the Bible as it pertains to any named person past, present or future.
    Fact B: There is not one single named person in the entire Bible who is even threatened with such a fate. Zero examples of such a thing in the Bible as it pertains to any named person past, present or future.
    Where then do such stories come from? It’s a very Divinely CLEVER way that the Bible is constructed and is so to show ‘us’ just how utterly vile our own hearts are when we would seek to see that upon some other person. The facts of the text will show any truthful seeker that those who do see the ‘burning alive forever’ scenario are really just reflecting their own EVIL HEARTS.

    And if you haven’t looked around this earth lately, that fact is well and amply demonstrated daily in any case. It’s just ‘worse’ in religious people and meant to be shown.

    Advice? Avoid hypocritical liars at all costs in any engagements. They have issues, inside.

    • in shade says:

      Let’s clarify some facts, indeed:

      A. Matthew 5:22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

      B. Matthew 5:29-30 If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

      C. Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

      D. Matthew 13:38-42 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

      E. Matthew 13:49-50 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

      F. Matthew 25:46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

      G. Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

      H. Mark 9:45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell.

      I. Mark 9:47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell.

      J. Luke 12:5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

      K. Luke 16:23-24 In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

      L. 2nd Thessalonians 1:9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power

      M. James 3:6 The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.

      N. 2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;

      O. Revelations 1:18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

      P. Revelations 6:8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

      Q. Revelations 14:10-11 he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.”

      R. Revelations 19:20 But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

      S. Revelations 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

      T. Revelations 20:13-15 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he
      had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was
      thrown into the lake of fire.

      U. Revelations 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars–their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

      That’s not quoting all the indirect references to the fiery pits throughout the book…

      • Itsalong says:

        Obviously you are in the process of deprogramming, seeing your grasp of scripture. Good for you.

        If you want to understand Biblical texts, understand that they present that ‘other entities’ that are not mankind are overlapped within mankind. Essentially there are 2 entirely separate parties between everyone’s own two ears. Examples you ask? Mark 4:15, (and all the other seed ‘parables.’) Romans 7:17-21, Romans 9:19-20, Romans 11:8, Ephesians 2:2, 2 Cor. 12:7, 2 Tim. 2:20-21, 1 John 3:8 and a myriad of other scriptures.

        Is there then an eternal hell? Yes. For devils, not mankind.

        Separate the 2 parties and things clear up considerably. All have sinned past tense. All have sin, present tense. Sin is of the devil, an entity that is not mankind.

        Scientology is bowed to by people with money and supposed intelligence and they have a similar premise, that ‘Thetans’ (caused by the evil Xenu) occupy the space between our ears.

        Call ‘them’ bad thoughts, chemical imbalances, alter egos, survival instinct or what have you. It’s a similar principle. The Biblical narrative promotes common psychology disassociation theory. To separate ones self from ‘bad thoughts’ resulting in ‘bad actions.’ And it uses the natural repulsion to slavery principle that we inherently have, that slavery being to the devil.

        Jesus divided other invisible entities from within mankind on nearly every page of the N.T.

        It’s not just a man alone story. Nor is hell for man. Hell is an anti-heaven for ‘the negative entities.’

        Besides, it’s a much more interesting read when read with this fact in mind. Makes you question yourself and your reading abilities. Christians themselves are the best evidence of the matters, exposing the most vile evil on the planet from their own mouths, wanting to burn everyone alive who doesn’t believe ‘like them.’ There is evil personified, and draped with hypocrisy and lies. They sin, their sin is of the devil, but they double deal the standard, exempting themselves and condemning everyone else. There is hypocrisy exposed and a liar revealed within.

        In the name of Jesus, of course.

        • in shade says:

          Please at this point read the comment I had written in reply to Josephine, for I find it unnecessary to copy and paste. It’s right there at the top.

          • The people of Samaria must bear their guilt because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword. Their little ones will be dashed to the ground their pregnant women ripped open(Hosea 13:16). Happy is he who takes their infants and dash them against the rocks(Psalm 137:9). I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I The Lord do all these things(Isaiah 45:7).

      • Josephine says:

        Hey again,
        Fiery pits in the bible (I AM NO EXPERT THIS IS JUST ME SPEAKING FROM 134 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE) usually appear as allegories for Hell (or in the case of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego an actual pit of fire) and while i admittedly did not read all of your excerpts (Citation needed by the way) i did se many that are just metaphors. Many speak of drastic ways (like gouging your eye out) to remove sin, not because God actually wants you to do it, but because it is to show the severity of sin. Also, please do not go about your life only reading things on a surface level (otherwise you’ll never understand the real meaning behind Sleepy Hollow)

  9. Andy sule says:

    there is sense in this writeup

  10. Anonymous says:

    you have to realize that religion is a thing fabricated by the people to convince themselves that there is something better waiting for them after death.

    • in shade says:

      Yeah – instead of living a great life here, they HOPE for something else afterwards, often ruining the experience of the life that is certain for themselves and everyone around them and people they don’t even know… Pathetic…

      • Josephine says:

        think from a Christian’s perspective, if you believe wholeheartedly that all of christianity (God, heaven, hell, sin) is real, then wouldn’t it be terrible of us to not try to save EVERYONE regardless if we knew them or not?

  11. Anonymous says:

    Not to mention that god deserves hell MUCH MORE than we do because the bible shows god predestined the fall of man, has an elect, and predestined people to hell. It’s his fault everything bad happens and that some people are born evil. Also he laughs at people’s calamity and loves the elect but I don’t think he loves the non-elect, otherwise he wouldn’t reprobate the non-elect for sinning.

    • Josephine says:

      lets remember the difference between predestined and omnipotent (ik, they are completely different let me explain) God knows us so well, he knows every choice each of us will make. That is much different then never giving us the choice at all or forcing us to chose one. Comprenez-vous?

  12. Absolutely says:

    Especially when he Punishes the innocent people like us.

    • Josephine says:

      Gid does not see us as innocent as we all sin. look briefly at the 10 commandments, if you can honestly say that you’ve never broken any of them, look at 1 corinthians 6:9. Once you’ve realized that you (like all of us) have broken at least one look at romans 6:23 and see what God has spared us.

  13. Bill says:

    Had I come across this while still a Christian, I’d likely have either answered “no” to 3 or arrived at a slight modification to conclusion A: “God exists, and has a moral code that modern society would consider abhorrent.” Some other comments here have already mentioned that there are certain things the Christian God can’t do, and the Book of Job alone (which, incidentally, was what led me to deconvert) illustrates a lot of the incompatibilities between divine and human morality, so to speak.

    I once had a pastor who countered the latter line of thought with something like “yes, but He’s good by definition, and we have no choice but to follow His thinking or be tortured for eternity” – sort of like what one would have to do to survive in a totalitarian regime. Submission to a despicable power is strongly against my own moral code no matter the alternative, so I didn’t buy this, but do you have a counterargument that doesn’t assume a low valuing of self-preservation?

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